Curse

Asrial · May 08, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

However, if the average male teenager was given the option of Barbies or GI Joe without fear of social repercussions or anyone knowing, which do you honestly think he would choose?

Actually, I would lean more towards GI Joe.

I can do more with GI Joe than I can with Barbie. Yeah, as a kid, there was some interest in seeing under her clothes.. but it was just curiousity.

The GI Joe's could do so much more like wage war and have battles with my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles while the Transformers waited in the wings to pounce down and annihilate both parties.

Barbie just looked pretty

Horogan Sivoris · May 08, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

GI joe, Or Action Man, (do you guys have action man over there?) could KILL barbie.

Barbie would just accesories action man.

Mimu · May 08, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

I wish to apologise in advance for this long rant..

Skip it if you want, I'll just post a summary at the bottom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

I can see both sides of this debate..

On the one side, its a game and you can pick whatever sex you want as your character...

Exactly..you should have just stopped here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

On the other side, its a social norm that males choose male characters when they play and women choose female characters when they play. Just like girls play with barbie dolls and boys play with GI Joes.

As a young child, some boys choose to play with barbie dolls, and some girls choose to play with GI Joe. This does not affect their sexuality when they grow older.

(Then some people decide to do neither.)

So there are exceptions to this..

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

Just like men wear shorts and pants and women wear skirts and dresses.

You've never seen a woman wearing trousers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

Girl babies get pink rooms and male babies get blue rooms.

...Not necessarily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

Its just the way the world works - and it works that way because its best that way, otherwise it would be different. Of course there are reasons to stray from the norm, but generally, there is a norm for some reason.

Different is not always a bad thing..if everybody acted in the ways you have just listed the world would be an incredibly dull and boring place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

I dont understand why a male would choose a female to play in an mmorpg (unless he were gay or wanted to be a female in RL).

Roleplaying guilds, and a desire to keep the male/female ratio in-game equal? (As it does seem to be at the moment.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

Everyone understands that sex in game is assumed as sex out of game.

Assuming things about someone before speaking to them is a terrible thing to do, especially by their online avatar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

Though it is a game, it is real life.

Yes..I am quite adept at elementalist spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

You do not leave the real world when you sit down and play GW. You are still living and breathing. You are spending valuable hours of your life playing this game. Yes, its a game, but its still real life. People interact in the game and sex does play a factor.

Simple..if someone asks "Male or female?" then you just answer truthfully, and if they choose to judge you by your avatar then that is there lookout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

You get no bonus based on sex in this game. People will choose different clasess (monk v ranger) for example because it affects the way your character performs. Sex has no effect.

It seems you have never attempted to rp..

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

One of the main reasons is to say you like the way the cartoon looks because its female, and this is sort of ridiculous to me.

So a male who prefers to stare at a female for 100+ hours rather than a male is ridiculous? They may just be pixels, but if you're going to stare at someone's ass all day, it may as well be one which appeals to you..

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

Based on this theory you should yourself become a woman, that way you could look at yourself all day long.

..So because you choose to play a female character you should also become female in real life?

This seems...

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

ridiculous to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

OR, you could just put a picture of a hot chick near your computer to look at.

I'm sure a lot of people do..

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

But, come on, looking at the female character cannot have THAT much of an affect.

Again...it's a ROLEPLAYING game..there are rp guilds, and I am going to join one at some point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

You are more looking at your enemiese and your skill bar and health bar than avatars.

Even in towns and at social events?

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

I firmly believe if a male chooses a female character in THIS game (as there are no bonuses what-so-ever [unless you are a merchant]), then that male is either homo or bi sexual, very effeminate, or immature.

...I actually laughed at this statement.

A man deciding to stare at a female character for hours rather than male makes them gay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

Enjoy flaming this response!

Call it a heated discussion..but otherwise, I did.

People choose female characters for main reasons.

1.) Asthetic..Whilst exploring they prefer to stare at a female rather than a male, or vice versa. I personally feel this is fair enough..

2.) Roleplay..They prefer to roleplay a female character..whether it is just a way to express their more feminine side, (And no, this does not make them gay.) because they feel certain classes are better represented by females, (Sorceress, Druid, or even warrior princess spring to mind.

) or just for the fun of it then it really is their decision, and if anyone has a problem they can just stop rping.

3.) The male elementalist dance really is crap.

Again, I'm really sorry about posting this..but a lot of it had to be said.

I was not intending to flame, but there really is no nice way to post my opinions on his message..

edit: I probably took a lot of what he said too literally..but whatever..

Dendra · May 08, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Just to be the devil's devil's advocate, you can argue that the person who chooses to play the cross gender character accepts tolerance more than the person who denies him/herself the chose of playing a character opposite of his/her gender, meaning that the first party would be easier to get along with than the second. WOuldn't that make them more sociable?

Dreamsmith · May 08, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

This whole thread seems silly to me.

When you read a book, the author generally has both male and female characters in it. It's a very poor writer who can't make both kinds of characters, and write them realistically.

Do you find it odd that male authors create female characters? Or that female authors create male characters?

Or is there some reason you believe role-players must necessarily be less creative and adept and making and playing characters than fiction writers?

Ideally, there ain't much difference between the two.

It has nothing to do with tolerance or perversity or any of that nonsense above. It's a simple function of creativity. If you have trouble doing both, you're just not the creative type. Don't worry about it, you don't really need to be, but you should probably avoid any "real" role-playing games, you wouldn't enjoy them. They do require that kind of creativity. Fiction writing really wouldn't be your thing, either. And from a lot of the responses I'm reading here, simply reading fiction is probably beyond you, too. You are supposed to identify to a certain degree with characters in a book, and from what a lot of you have said, you'd have trouble doing that with any book which contains characters of both genders (which is most any good book). I can only assume most of you people who find this odd simply don't read.

NoseJob · May 08, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

What's the point anyway? Do you talk differently to girls in a ORPG? Try to get a date with a girl that's on the other side of the world? I don't even think about someone being a man or woman in an ORPG. They're just people and I talk to them like I would in real life. Without any preduce and with indifference to gender.

Dendra · May 08, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

This whole thread seems silly to me.

When you read a book, the author generally has both male and female characters in it. It's a very poor writer who can't make both kinds of characters, and write them realistically.

Do you find it odd that male authors create female characters? Or that female authors create male characters?

Or is there some reason you believe role-players must necessarily be less creative and adept and making and playing characters than fiction writers?

Ideally, there ain't much difference between the two.

(snip)

lol... I'm sorry I can't keep playing this... this D and D; the ... GM (or so he calls himself) is trying to convince me that he is this female merchant and I'm not buying it!

chalt2 · May 08, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

WOW, it is really scary sometimes to see just how many people are intolerent, what I mean to say is those that are taking the hard stance on "the male should play a male and a female should play a female" must live in fear everyday, worrying that because the Female character that they have been working with on-line might actually be a Male and if that is true then they might be homosexual by association!

Shiryou Kattami · May 08, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

I remember trying to explain this on WoW

My general explanation was when you see actors playing the roles of evil masterminds/sadistic torturers/transgenders struggling with their sexual identity, you don't then accuse that actor of being the above. Does Ian McKellen really walk around in a grey pointy hat and robes? Is the guy who played the criminal in Se7en really some psychopathic maniac with a bit of religious madness thrown in for good measure? Does J.K.Rowling secretly dream of being a teenage wizard with evil dark powers chasing after him? Hell no, and it's the same with roleplayers. It's acting a role - temporarily assuming a different identity and personality for fun. The character I'm playing at the moment - when I finally get a chance to RP :P - will be a seriously arrogant, nasty little git with a bit of a superiority complex and overconfidence chucked in for good measure. I sure as hell aren't like that in real life, but it's a fun personality for me to play.

It's a game folks, and playing something you're not is just a facet of that

Ramus · May 08, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Im gone an hour and theres two extra pages. Jeeze.
Anyway, GO FEMALES! Im going back to playing my level 6 Necromancer female I made today.

Edit: AND SHES HOT!

Witchblade · May 08, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

My opinion:
Most of the male skins looks pretty "common" ..look at the male monk for example or even the male Elementalist...
That skin definitely suxx

Now..look at this

Principa Discordia · May 08, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by explode9339

Firstly, you agree with me by saying "its a social norm", and for that I thank you. "RPGs are not social in the real sense of the word", is a completely ambigous sentence that has little meaning. What is the "real sense" of the word social? I can give you the definition - Social: tending to form cooperative and interdependent relationships with others of one's kind.

Maybe I was a little careless with my wording. What I meant was that gender roles are social norms, and those social norms apply to the majority of society. RPGs, however, have absolutely nothing to do with real-life society, and so most of those social norms do not apply to it.

Quote:

GW is VERY Social.

This is purely open to interpretation. I don't count something as "social" unless I'm with people face-to-face. You may think otherwise, but like I said, it's purely open to interpretation.

Quote:

"Shared Entertainment" is not social? So when I play poker with my friends thats not social? How about when I play basketball with them in a 5v5 game? How about when we sit around and watch Football every Sunday?

To me those things are social because you are interacting face-to-face with those people in a real-life setting. Social norms apply there.

Quote:

What about when 4 of us connect to teamspeak and party up in a game called guildwars and duke it out with other 4 man teams in a pvp arena. Then after the battle, congratulate the other team or thank them for the challenge. These forms of shared entertainment are not social???

I don't consider that to be social. I consider it to be simply shared entertainment. As it's in a fictional universe with very little in common with reality, and as there's no real society in it, then real-life social norms do not apply.

In-game social norms could apply. I'm sure citizens of Ascalon would be punished for criminal acts, for example, collaborating with the Charr. In-game social norms could even apply in terms of gender... If your male character wore a dress, maybe that would break an in-game social norm, but the matter of who's at the keyboard is completely irrelevent.

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is... It's pointless applying real-life social norms to a fictional setting. The "R" in "RPG" means "roleplaying", it's not roleplaying if you're pointing fingers at people who are at the keyboard.

Ascension · May 08, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

I'd say it's not important in the slightest, but five pages of debate says otherwise! Really though, is it that big of a deal? If it is, why don't you get the infamous WoW Role-Playing Police over here...

<('-'<)

In all serious: please don't - they're very scary people! ><

When it all comes down to things, some characters just look better when a certain sex. The caster classes, generally more chaotic looking, really suit the varied female look. Now, if they gave guys the chance to have mohawks - this wouldn't be an issue!

There's a lot of very long-winded and intelligent posts here. Well-done, yes. Redundant, yes... It can be compared to that stupid kirby thing above, irrelivent and just for fun. If some male wants to run around playing a female charcter, it really doesn't matter. Saying that, very well-done posts

a very good read also.

Mimu · May 08, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

Now, if they gave guys the chance to have mohawks - this wouldn't be an issue!

I believe necromancer males have a mohawk option.

Ramus · May 08, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is... It's pointless applying real-life social norms to a fictional setting. The "R" in "RPG" means "roleplaying", it's not roleplaying if you're pointing fingers at people who are at the keyboard.

Principa = win.

Ascension · May 08, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

That's a real shame, all the necromancers I've seen have had that same stupid buzz-cut. Who would willingly turn down a mohawk? This game is about fantasy and getting away from things .. so unless you have a mohawk - why would you not want one!?

Weezer_Blue · May 08, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

What else should I be?
All apologies
What else should I say?
Everyone is gay
What else should I write?
I don't have the right
What else should I be?
All apologies

...hehe... I like Nirvana.

Principa Discordia · May 08, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

This game is about fantasy and getting away from things .. so unless you have a mohawk - why would you not want one!?

Because certain hairstyles are outside the (real life) social norm and therefore shouldn't be used in a game, especially the person at the keyboard doesn't have one.

[/sarcasm]

VividDream · May 08, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Because women look better than men... even (especially) when it's just pixels

Pevil Lihatuh · May 08, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

'Yuskei Sto Helit'(bonus points if you recognise where the last name is from).

go discworld! I have a healer called Lutze (though admittedly the healer is female but shhh)

Its a weird subject. In real life, 2 women who hug are just women. 2 guys who hug are immediately gay. Same in GW. A woman who chooses to play a guy is just a woman playing a game. A guy playing a girl has gay tendancies. *shrugs* I go for both, I'm actually female but it depends completely on how i feel when i create the char as to what i go for